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	<title>Comments on: Setting the Floor too High? - Guatemalan Labor Laws</title>
	<link>http://www.internationalhf.org/blog/2008/05/20/setting-the-floor-too-high-guatemalan-labor-laws/</link>
	<description>Effective Grassroots Action</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ryan@IHF</title>
		<link>http://www.internationalhf.org/blog/2008/05/20/setting-the-floor-too-high-guatemalan-labor-laws/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan@IHF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.internationalhf.org/blog/2008/05/20/setting-the-floor-too-high-guatemalan-labor-laws/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Brian,

Thanks so much for your response.  Your points definitely resonate with me, and it's nice to get the perspective of someone with a broader perspective on labor.  

I think we've hit on something of a tension in the situation of workers in Guatemala, at least as my limited experience here in Santiago has let me see the situation.  The labor laws do great things for people who manage to wind up in formal, full-time positions, but everyone else is stuck in unregulated, "contractual" (although rarely involving a formal contract) labor.  So, I suppose the question is how to get more people the legal protection they deserve.

The purpose of my post was to suggest that it might be a good idea for labor laws to be more supportive of consistent part-time work (not necessarily seasonal contractual work like in the banana industry) by providing for an hourly minimum wage and prorated benefits.  Now, it's entirely possible that the lawyer with whom we spoke has an incomplete understanding of the laws, and there are already such provisions.  If so, then I suppose my point is moot.

I was also hoping to make the point that the dramatic level of inequality in Guatemala puts up some significant hurdles for anyone hoping to improve labor conditions through minimum wage legislation.  The country's economy is simply too small right now for a small percentage of the population to hold so much wealth, the minimum wage to be as high as it is, and the bulk of the rural work force to find employment under the protection of the law.

I hope to hear back from you, because I'd like to learn a good bit more about the broader labor situation in Guatemala (i.e. the stuff I can't observe from one small community).

Thanks,
Ryan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your response.  Your points definitely resonate with me, and it&#8217;s nice to get the perspective of someone with a broader perspective on labor.  </p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve hit on something of a tension in the situation of workers in Guatemala, at least as my limited experience here in Santiago has let me see the situation.  The labor laws do great things for people who manage to wind up in formal, full-time positions, but everyone else is stuck in unregulated, &#8220;contractual&#8221; (although rarely involving a formal contract) labor.  So, I suppose the question is how to get more people the legal protection they deserve.</p>
<p>The purpose of my post was to suggest that it might be a good idea for labor laws to be more supportive of consistent part-time work (not necessarily seasonal contractual work like in the banana industry) by providing for an hourly minimum wage and prorated benefits.  Now, it&#8217;s entirely possible that the lawyer with whom we spoke has an incomplete understanding of the laws, and there are already such provisions.  If so, then I suppose my point is moot.</p>
<p>I was also hoping to make the point that the dramatic level of inequality in Guatemala puts up some significant hurdles for anyone hoping to improve labor conditions through minimum wage legislation.  The country&#8217;s economy is simply too small right now for a small percentage of the population to hold so much wealth, the minimum wage to be as high as it is, and the bulk of the rural work force to find employment under the protection of the law.</p>
<p>I hope to hear back from you, because I&#8217;d like to learn a good bit more about the broader labor situation in Guatemala (i.e. the stuff I can&#8217;t observe from one small community).</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Ryan</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.internationalhf.org/blog/2008/05/20/setting-the-floor-too-high-guatemalan-labor-laws/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 14:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.internationalhf.org/blog/2008/05/20/setting-the-floor-too-high-guatemalan-labor-laws/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Part-time contractual labor is often excluded from the labor laws in many countries, and I would be cautious advocating for any changes to the laws that will create incentive to move the labor market towards contractual labor rather than full time employment. Contractual labor is often used by manufacturers who are trying to skirt the laws covering formal employment. Contractual labor does not necessarily increase productivity. It creates insecurity among the workers, and it is not necessarily bringing people into the formal workforce, but keeps them on the edge of the formal economy.  

Perhaps Guatemalan labor laws are relatively strong because of the need to circumscribe the growing use of contractual, non-full time employment which is a commonly used as a cost cutting measure for industries who would rather use their bargaining power to deal with individual, often unempowered workers, on short term part-time contracts al la Wal-mart in the U.S., especially in the textile export sector. I would be interested to hear Natalia's perspective  coming from the garment sector in Guatemala City

Perhaps another way to help Natalia would be to help her start her own business specializing in quality control, and you can contract with her. This may require her to find more clients, but at least she will be working for herself and you will have a reliable company with whom to do business.

While your intentions for self-empowerment and creating employment may be good, laws are often written to proscribe the actions of the lowest common denominator. In Guatemalan labor history, there are plenty of examples in the banana industry and other export industries of egregious violations against workers, often including workers inability to get a leg up because they are restricted to the part-time contractual economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part-time contractual labor is often excluded from the labor laws in many countries, and I would be cautious advocating for any changes to the laws that will create incentive to move the labor market towards contractual labor rather than full time employment. Contractual labor is often used by manufacturers who are trying to skirt the laws covering formal employment. Contractual labor does not necessarily increase productivity. It creates insecurity among the workers, and it is not necessarily bringing people into the formal workforce, but keeps them on the edge of the formal economy.  </p>
<p>Perhaps Guatemalan labor laws are relatively strong because of the need to circumscribe the growing use of contractual, non-full time employment which is a commonly used as a cost cutting measure for industries who would rather use their bargaining power to deal with individual, often unempowered workers, on short term part-time contracts al la Wal-mart in the U.S., especially in the textile export sector. I would be interested to hear Natalia&#8217;s perspective  coming from the garment sector in Guatemala City</p>
<p>Perhaps another way to help Natalia would be to help her start her own business specializing in quality control, and you can contract with her. This may require her to find more clients, but at least she will be working for herself and you will have a reliable company with whom to do business.</p>
<p>While your intentions for self-empowerment and creating employment may be good, laws are often written to proscribe the actions of the lowest common denominator. In Guatemalan labor history, there are plenty of examples in the banana industry and other export industries of egregious violations against workers, often including workers inability to get a leg up because they are restricted to the part-time contractual economy.</p>
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